Thursday, July 19, 2012

Thought Exercise...

What would you do if caught in a situation like this?

Saturday night flash mob takes over Jacksonville Walmart
A huge house party broken up by police in a North Jacksonville subdivision didn't end there Saturday night as hundreds of young partygoers ignited a flash mob at the Lem Turner Road Walmart Supercenter.
They caused havoc that was recorded and posted on YouTube until Tuesday afternoon, while one person reported being shot during the party.
According to the report, "hundreds" of teenagers flooded the store, throwing things around, riding shopping carts, and causing minor damage. No injuries were reported, although there is mention of gunshots heard outside the store. Oh, and petty shoplifting occurred. At the end of the article, other events similar to this are mentioned, including a supermarket in Portland OR and two convenience stores in MD. There's also the WI State Fair mob, with allegations of racial assaults against fairgoers being part of the mob's motivation.

While this is not as yet a common occurrence, it does bring up quite the conundrum for the concealed carrier. Some point to these instances as the need for a high capacity sidearm, claiming that the person armed with a five-shot revolver or 7- shot pocket 380 is at a significant disadvantage over someone with a 17+1 capacity wundernine. More extreme examples involve armed spouses, cover, etc. - not that it's ever a bad idea for both parties to be armed, mind you.

Honestly, if you're in the middle of one of these mobs and they don't scatter after the first couple of shots - and their friends getting shot - whether you have 5 rounds or 17 off the bat is the least of your worries. You drop a couple attackers with a J-frame and more keep coming, they're going to come if you've got a G19, too. Given the recent incident out of Florida (and thanks to the many folks who sent this in!), it's likely that the first sign of armed resistance is going to send the attackers running the other way - whether you've got a 6+1 pocket 380 or a full size schutzen-blaster with 20 rounds.

That's not to say you shouldn't have a plan for a large(r) group, though - many of the home invasion stories that turn into DGC additions have anywhere from 2-5 participants. The plan for an assault outside the home is different than the plan for an assault inside the home, naturally; since goblins don't phone ahead and tell you when, where, and how many will be attacking you, the plan should be flexible. In the above case, a wait-and-see  approach would have worked. Find your way to a defensible position - barricaded in the bathroom works just fine - and call 911.

Be prepared to fight, but hope you won't need to - and carry your guns.

That is all.

Thanks to Stretch for the story!


Anonymous said...

To be utterly honest, I'd be looking for a quiet corner, a defensible spot, and/or the back door. Because of things like the Wisconsin State Fair. Happy, joking herds of teens and adults can turn into angry mobs rather too rapidly for my peace of mind. They could also provide cover for nastier sorts. Would I defend myself if attacked? I'd try to, as I'm doing my dead-level best to get out of the building or into cover.


skidmark said...

Being a curmudgeon I have prepared myself for just such an event. "Get the f**k out of here!" has worked with many hordes of folks who have never before had anyone set a limit or boundary on them. And I'm ready to back that with a very visible statement that I will not brook any attack against me without inflicting some of the same on those desiring to inflict upon me. I'm old enough to know I would prefer not to go out due to such a situation but prepared if necessary to do so. I'll fulfill that old saying of dieing on a pile of brass (yes, five is still a pile) if that's what it takes.

Beware an old man with just one gun. He probably knows how to use it. :)

stay safe.

Keystone said...

As an is a gigantic house party that migrated to a Walmart a flash mob?

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

What happens to a mob of 300 mischievous kids inside a large building when 3 shots ring out, Jay?


Old NFO said...

+1 on LR1's comment...

Anonymous said...

I believe I read old hunters would shoot two or three buffalo and climb up on the bodies during a charge.

The rest of the buffalos would run around them.

Might work in a Wally Mart as well.


Dave H said...

I think in a mob like that my first priority is getting out. Stand your ground means you don't have a duty to retreat, but retreat is still the smart thing to do when the odds are against you. In that situation I'd use the gun and my mighty girth to get past whoever's trying to stop me from leaving.

I think of it like being in a burning building. If it's a small fire (a VERY small fire) I may find an extinguisher and try to put it out. If the fire's too big for that it's time to GTHO.

Stretch said...

I'm practicing the lyrics to "Men of Harlech"

Ed said...

"Find your way to a defensible position - barricaded in the bathroom works just fine - and call 911."

So besides carrying that gun, also carry that cell phone while lounging in your jammies? Or should both be pre-positioned in the bathroom? I can envision a modified Snuggie that holds both a weapon and a cell phone or perhaps a bathrobe with a built-in shoulder holster.

"He [Florida Assistant State Attorney Stephen Udagawa] questioned [Trevor] Dooley about the gun.

"You always walk around your house with a loaded gun?"

"Yes," the defendant replied.

"Even if you have no reason to walk around your house with a loaded gun in your pocket?"

"It's my house.""

Matt said...

If they're determined enough, you'll definitely have to shoot the first one. If they're crazy enough, you might have to shoot another one just to prove you've got the nerve to keep shooting until they leave you alone.

But any mob that contains a guy willing to be the third one to get shot is a mob that requires combined-arms tactics.

This, of course, assumes that the mob has you surrounded, or fleeing the scene is impossible or impractical for some other reason. Just because we have the legal right to stand our ground doesn't make it prudent to confront a mob all by yourself. The cops don't do that. Hell, the MARINES don't do that. 'Cause, you know...if they ARE crazy enough to keep coming even after you've shot a couple of them, you definitely don't have enough bullets or enough time to get 'em all.

Anonymous said...

Hi Jay,

I don't know if you've seen this site but it has some excellent articles, including the following one about flash mobs:


lee n. field said...

I watched about half the vid from inside the Walmart.

It didn't look violent, yet. Excitable, though.

As soon as I perceived it, I'd be out the door. Not bucking the tide, but moving transversly to the crowd's movement, as purposefully as I could manage without appearing to bolt. The side door, out the garden center, whatever.

Roadkill said...

I work at a Walmart. Big box retail stores leave workers rather vulnerable. A young retarded man actually kissed one of my co-workers while she was still working at a Big Lots. Worse things happen all the time. I always have a number of knives on me, but naturally in this situation it wouldn't do much good. There are plans in place to deal with riots, but none for dealing with flash mobs. However, the security cameras are excellent in walmart stores. They are high end digital cameras that can track individuals across the store. Be assured, the most destructive of these bastard kids all have good pictures for the cops to look it.